I thought I had seen it all

Ben · 11-07-2006, 04:47 AM

This is a rather unusual query but perhaps you could help or direct me to another source in relation to my query below

I recently organised a team competition between 2 golf societies We have been playing this competition annually for the past 9 years and it has always been played with great spirit & camaraderie

This year the competition was arranged over 27 holes, made up of a nine hole fourball competition nine hole scotch foursomes and finally a nine hole singles match play. There were 8 players on each team so we played for a total of 16 points The match was keenly contested and very enjoyable however afterwards we had an issue where I would appreciate any advice
In one of the matches two players saw one of their opposing players (who was looking for a ball in rough) drop and then declare the same ball as the one he had used to tee off. The two players could not believe what had happened and it was not until later that they realised they had both witnessed this occurring. Later in the singles game the same player was seen to drop a ball from his pocket in the rough. Before he declared it, one of the opposing players pointed out that he had seen him drop the ball. The player then picked up the ball, continued to look for his first ball before conceding the hole.As mentioned, this only came to light after the competition was over.
Obviously what happened was completely against all rules of golf and the individual concerned would have been very aware of this.
My question is what should be the consequence of this My assumption is that the player should be disqualified but what would then be the consequence on the overall match As a team member, would the overall competition be conceded as well
I am sure this is not the first time this has occurred and would be interested to hear information on any precedents or relevant rulings

SteveRoos · 11-12-2006, 01:01 AM

Good question Ben.

Under the Rule 2-5 of the USGA it reads the following:

In match play, if a doubt or dispute arises between the players, a player may make a claim. If no duly authorised representative of the Committee is available within a reasonable time, the players must continue the match without delay. The Committee may consider a claim only if the player making the claim notifies his opponent (i) that he is making a claim, (ii) of the facts of the situation and (iii) that he wants a ruling. The claim must be made before any player in the match plays from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the match, before all players in the match leave the putting green.

A later claim may not be considered by the Committee unless it is based on facts previously unknown to the player making the claim and he had been given wrong information (Rules 6-2a and 9) by an opponent.

Once the result of the match has been officially announced, a later claim may not be considered by the Committee unless it is satisfied that the opponent knew he was giving wrong information.

I would think that since both players (team A) saw him (team B) drop the ball team A should have made a claim against team B at this time however the last line of the rule states that "a later claim may not be considered by the Committee unless it is satisfied that the opponenet knew he was giving wrong information" therefor I would think it could be looked at on the argument that the offending player new he was giving the wrong score (no penalty for lost ball.)

As for your question on the overall match I don't think it would automatically disqualify team B. The hole or more likely the match would be awarded to team A possibly changing the overall winner of the tournament.

I could be wrong on my assumptions but this is my initial judgement. ScottyK what are your thoughts on this as you generally know better than I do with the Rules

Lastly I would hope this person not be invited back next year.

ScottyK · 11-20-2006, 07:02 PM

Sorry for two things:

1. The delay in responding
2. The fact that you're wrong Steve haha

You are close in your judgement Steve but the ruling since it is match play the game is over and the penalty cannot be brought up. If it was to be challenged it should have been done at the proper time which would at the occurence of the infraction. Since this was not done and the game has ended and winner declared the ruling stands. Basically it's too late.

I do agree with Steve on one thing. I wouldn't invite him back either

11-07-2006, 04:47 AM	#1
Ben Swing and a Miss!! Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1	I thought I had seen it all This is a rather unusual query but perhaps you could help or direct me to another source in relation to my query below I recently organised a team competition between 2 golf societies We have been playing this competition annually for the past 9 years and it has always been played with great spirit & camaraderie This year the competition was arranged over 27 holes, made up of a nine hole fourball competition nine hole scotch foursomes and finally a nine hole singles match play. There were 8 players on each team so we played for a total of 16 points The match was keenly contested and very enjoyable however afterwards we had an issue where I would appreciate any advice In one of the matches two players saw one of their opposing players (who was looking for a ball in rough) drop and then declare the same ball as the one he had used to tee off. The two players could not believe what had happened and it was not until later that they realised they had both witnessed this occurring. Later in the singles game the same player was seen to drop a ball from his pocket in the rough. Before he declared it, one of the opposing players pointed out that he had seen him drop the ball. The player then picked up the ball, continued to look for his first ball before conceding the hole.As mentioned, this only came to light after the competition was over. Obviously what happened was completely against all rules of golf and the individual concerned would have been very aware of this. My question is what should be the consequence of this My assumption is that the player should be disqualified but what would then be the consequence on the overall match As a team member, would the overall competition be conceded as well I am sure this is not the first time this has occurred and would be interested to hear information on any precedents or relevant rulings

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

11-12-2006, 01:01 AM	#2
SteveRoos Administrator Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 229	Good question Ben. Under the Rule 2-5 of the USGA it reads the following: In match play, if a doubt or dispute arises between the players, a player may make a claim. If no duly authorised representative of the Committee is available within a reasonable time, the players must continue the match without delay. The Committee may consider a claim only if the player making the claim notifies his opponent (i) that he is making a claim, (ii) of the facts of the situation and (iii) that he wants a ruling. The claim must be made before any player in the match plays from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the match, before all players in the match leave the putting green. A later claim may not be considered by the Committee unless it is based on facts previously unknown to the player making the claim and he had been given wrong information (Rules 6-2a and 9) by an opponent. Once the result of the match has been officially announced, a later claim may not be considered by the Committee unless it is satisfied that the opponent knew he was giving wrong information. I would think that since both players (team A) saw him (team B) drop the ball team A should have made a claim against team B at this time however the last line of the rule states that "a later claim may not be considered by the Committee unless it is satisfied that the opponenet knew he was giving wrong information" therefor I would think it could be looked at on the argument that the offending player new he was giving the wrong score (no penalty for lost ball.) As for your question on the overall match I don't think it would automatically disqualify team B. The hole or more likely the match would be awarded to team A possibly changing the overall winner of the tournament. I could be wrong on my assumptions but this is my initial judgement. ScottyK what are your thoughts on this as you generally know better than I do with the Rules Lastly I would hope this person not be invited back next year.

11-20-2006, 07:02 PM	#3
ScottyK Weekend Duffer Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 47	Sorry for two things: 1. The delay in responding 2. The fact that you're wrong Steve haha You are close in your judgement Steve but the ruling since it is match play the game is over and the penalty cannot be brought up. If it was to be challenged it should have been done at the proper time which would at the occurence of the infraction. Since this was not done and the game has ended and winner declared the ruling stands. Basically it's too late. I do agree with Steve on one thing. I wouldn't invite him back either

Sponsored Links